Curse

Xeupo · Sep 22, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

As I follow this thread, I think the overall message to Anet is the following:

seperate pvp skill sets and pve skills.

This seems the best solution to cater to both side of the market. The pvper's could get the nerfs they need without crippling the pve players.

The nerf of the ritualist pretty much removes the fun of playing pve. I am a heavy pve player and am feeling the change. Although I rarely Ritual Lord, I did like other area control builds. The loss of this ability has hurt the ritualist severely. I enjoy playing as a restorationalist, but currently that is the only way I can get into a group. I dislike playing only one effective build in groups. Channeling, despite the buff, is not effective in pve.

While a change in skill effects from pvp and pve would be annoying to some players, a simple warning displayed in the skill dialog would offset this. As pvp continues to evolve, other classes will experience a crippling in pve abilities.

I am not sure how difficult this seperation would be to achieve in the engine. However, seperating pvp and pve skill sets would be the best course of action to correct pvp Vs pve class differences.

This seperation would allow Anet to create pvp specific skills that counter builds instead of just nerfing current skillsets. Perhaps these skill sets could even be offered as special add-on pvp packages for players to purchase.

Morayna · Sep 22, 2006, 06:14 AM // 06:14

I really do not understand why everyone is saying that the ritualist was the only profession that did not have any energy problems. I have four different characters and out of all of them (an ele, ranger, monk, and rit) the only one that ever has energy issues is my monk if she's bombarded too heavily in higher lvl missions. My ele is a Nuker, constantly casting 25 pt skills, and the only time she Ever runs out of energy is if her enchants get removed or she racks up too much exhaustion (which is easily handled if you alternate the spells cast). Same thing for the rit. Remove boon = automatic energy shortage. So this shouldn't even be something to consider when deciding what to nerf, what needs "balanced" or what is overpowering. If it needed cut back a bit then do so only in one area, not all skills.

And Uncle Timmy made a very good point, with the release of Nightfall, you have to make the new classes look good or else no one will want to play them. Which means fewer sales, etc, etc or whatever.. Some poor profession has to go on the chopping block to compensate for that. I just think that it overall was taken a little too far. This is by far the most extreme nerf I've ever seen. And I thought the touch ranger would be next instead of the rit, considering the only thing ever said about touchers is that they are cheap, cookie-cutter builds played by noobs.

UncleTimmy · Sep 22, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

"40 Maps total. Most of which are about a tenth of the size of the average PVE map. PVP gets the balances, this is true (although there are some notable exceptions), but to complain that PVP takes content development away from PVE is false"

Oh dgb, I don't mean to suggest that PvP is taking away from PvE. Not at all. I meant to say that this game was designed with PvP in mind FIRST, with elements of PvE to bolster that. There's no real game that can be both; you cant be half-in, half-out and be a really good game, so all the activities are really geared towards building you into a PvPer here. That is why you can buy this game, open it and play a PvP character right out of the box. And I stand by that point.

What I was saying about PvE, was that after you do the missions/quests... what do you do? There is Urgoz, The Deep, and the other Elite mission (FoW?). That is all. Over and out. If you are a PvE person, you are now consigned to just doing that, over/over/over. And since most PvE ppl are STORY driven personalities, that only goes so far. The "average" PvP is pretty basic, and not to insult anyone btw. They really want to know two things: Where are we killing, and WHO are we killing there. Thats about it.

There does not have to be any story wrapped around that, the intelligence used here is geared toward the challenge of defeating real ppl using skills/builds that they made. Very admirable, but it is rather mundane to the "average" PvE. Basically, PvPers want Quake/Doom/Unreal stuff but in different type settings using weapons other than guns and lasers. Content is not really necessary. I doubt the average PvP really looked around his enviroments in there much, lest he get ganked by another human Touch Ranger.

So, PvP ppl have many outlets in Guild Wars which to quench their desire to kill, burst, immolate, burn, freeze, rend, smolder, poison, hack, sever and bash other real people. PvE, once you kill Shiro, thats pretty much it; thank you for playing. And these Elite areas could really USE a non nerfed Rit lord type build. Even before the nerfs, those places were about the only spots where pre-nerf Shelter got knocked down fast, due to the sheer number of mobs, and all the condition laden areas.

Again, with that in mind, of course Rits had to fall on the sword. Not that Im complaining... I just parked my Rit and play Monk, Rng, and Necro now.^^

Nightwish · Sep 23, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Four skills that are almost always on my rit's skill bar are Boon of Creation, Ritual Lord, Shelter and Union.

3 of them got nerfed. A very nice move from Anet =/

Kosiboi · Sep 23, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I agree with the people who say that A.Net may have wanted to promote build variety and/or originality. I, for one, admire that. It also sounds great...on paper.

The fact of the matter is that it comes down to the players. On the one hand, you have those who whine about how a build (Ritual Lord, in this case) is overpowered...and then those who - after said build has been nerfed - whine because the build is useless.

I know this might get complicated, but bear with me. The latter group (the post-whiners) splits into two subgroups. In this case, I'll take the ritualist as the example class. There are those who say the class is absolutely useless now, because they seem to have the misconception that it revolved solely around the Ritual Lord build. On the other hand, you have those that say it is useless because they realize that although there are other things you can do with a ritualist, especially with the recent buffs to Channeling and Restoration, the other subgroup (read: the ones who think it's completely useless because of the lack of RL) simply won't give them a chance to spice things up.

This brings me back to saying that promoting variety does sound good in theory, but if people are not willing to give ritualists (and I say ritualists, because most other classes have been able to cope through using different builds that are generally accepted; the ritualist sort of only had one build that people wanted) a chance, then it is all for naught.

I'm just hoping people will become more open-minded about ritualists and realize that they can do more than just spam spirits non-stop.

unmatchedfury · Sep 24, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosiboi

I'm just hoping people will become more open-minded about ritualists and realize that they can do more than just spam spirits non-stop.

I would like for that to be true. But unfortuantly your options for the rit are

1.) vengful was Khanei farming
2.)nerfed rit lord
3.) channeling in RA
4.) being a monk with out any prot.

Kosiboi · Sep 24, 2006, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by unmatchedfury

I would like for that to be true. But unfortuantly your options for the rit are

1.) vengful was Khanei farming
2.)nerfed rit lord
3.) channeling in RA
4.) being a monk with out any prot.

Wrong. Try channeling in PvE. It's great.

Xeupo · Sep 24, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosiboi

Wrong. Try channeling in PvE. It's great.

I found it still rather lackluster in the higher areas compared to other classes. I am reworking my builds still however.

A weapon master is fun if not the best in damage compared to a warrior. Although the splash damage of splinter weapon + hundred blades is entertaining. Especially with the ritualist's fighting animations.

I have found that splinter weapon is effected by armor ratings. Unless they are monks or ele's the damage is only fair. This has been the problem with the channeling branch however.

Overall, I still dislike how ritualists cannot be area controllers or team protectors anymore. Raisu Palace is really "fun" in a pug without a Ritual Lord. Its doable without one I know, but most pugs have a hard time with that type of damage. Even with 2 monks and a restorationalist.

Anet should seriously considering rolling back some of the nerf on the ritual lord. At least allow the build to still be viable if a bit harder to keep the spirits alive.

SziP · Sep 24, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Let us start a war!!! PvE vs PvP!!!!!! im on the pvp side :P j/k
u know that song....."why cant we(PvP and PvE people) be friends!"

Red Locust · Sep 24, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Look at the whole picture. The restoration and channeling lines got mad boosts. Assuming we're talking PvE, restoration is insanely efficient heals, moreso than a healer monk. Channeling is possibly the best single-target nuker in the game, being able to pump out constant ~120dmg spells and keep it up forever. In PvP it's a bit weaker since you can't keep spirits alive easy enough to depend on them to power your spells, but in PvE that is no problem. I'd rather have a good rit healer than monk healer in PvE tbh. If you would like to see some build examples, I can easily put together something.

What got nerfed? spirit spammers. What did spirit spamming involve? Find a nice cozy spot, press 1, 2, 3, 4, repeat. I can't imagine anyone who would find this the most appealing aspect of a ritualist.

Kosiboi · Sep 25, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

All things considered, you can still deal a bunch of damage for a fairly low cost. Consider that, at 16 Channeling, with a skill like Spirit Burn, for example, I can deal 110 damage* to a 60AL foe every five seconds at the cost of 5E per SB. By casting Essence Strike every time it's renewed, I deal 63 damage and gain 10E. In between, I use Gaze from Beyond, and when my targets are stationary, I dish out Spirit Rifts now and then.

For the amount of energy spent compared to, say, an elementalist spamming fire spells (who tend to have longer recycles, bar Flare), it sounds like a good deal to me.

* If I have a spirit up, which I usually do; I always have Pain and Destruction on my bar.

Colon's Fury · Sep 27, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

What got nerfed? spirit spammers. What did spirit spamming involve? Find a nice cozy spot, press 1, 2, 3, 4, repeat. I can't imagine anyone who would find this the most appealing aspect of a ritualist.

This is exactly my thoughts on this. I have a rit which is very close to my most played profession (my mesmer might be a bit a head) and I have to say, being a spirit spammer is the MOST BORING role to play. I won't lie, it was rediculous powerful, so I played it a lot especially in the upper level missions.

I don't see how people can say the Rit Lord build was not overpowered in PvE. It was perhaps even more overpowered in PvE then in PvP because as long as you stayed out of aggro, no mosters came after you and your spirits only took hits from protecting people, not direct damage from monsters. In PvE, it was possible to keep up Shelter + Union INDEFINITLY, and if you seriously think that a party of 8 normal lvl 20 toons (say 480 health) taking 33 damage from every source ALWAYS is not overpowered, then I don't know what to think. The Rit Lord build was PvE's "easy button", turning even the most challenging mission/quest into something that a bunch of monkeys could complete. I for one am glad that Anet took away this crutch that PvE players were relying upon, and boosted the lesser used skills of the Ritualist.

Now ritualists are more than one trick ponies, and with the addition of the new Nightfall skills, the ritualist has so many more possibilities. Good Riddance Ritual Lord.

I Brother Bloood I · Sep 27, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

1. End this topic.
2. I've only read the first few posts and i dont feel like reading the rest.
3. Unless im mistaken Shelter will take less dmg then it did before.(at 13)
4. Rit Lord... go get VwK and do some farming
5. Healin Ritu is much more fun then rit lord because of lack of monotiny
6. Spirit Bomber is still fine!
7. End this topic.

Dahnel · Sep 28, 2006, 09:59 AM // 09:59

I was on Rit Lord strike before they upped the cost of Shelter, playing it was as much fun as being in a coma.

Carth` · Sep 28, 2006, 11:27 AM // 11:27

I think Ritualists are still overpowered and need nerfing some more. They really piss me off in PvP and PvE.

unmatchedfury · Sep 29, 2006, 12:41 PM // 12:41

The rit still has no use in GvG, which is where the skilled players play. I mean no one is gonna bring along a resto rit when you can have a monk.
NO one is gonna bring allong a channeling rit in GvG, they are simply just not used at all in GvG.

In all the obsing I've done sice the nerf rit lord use has dropped (duh) to become nonexistant. Rt is the least seen abbreviation in GvG and HoH and there is a reason.

Also some of the skills are quite good for the rit. but they aren't going to break us into PvP, The Rit still is my main charactor, and my favorite.

He can still run rit lord, but monks are better. He can channel, but eles are better. He can heal, but monks are better. HE can use weapons to deal dmg in melee, but comes nowhere close to the IW mesmer.

All in all i see no reason for others to consider the rit except one.

He can use spirits to great effect to control an area. IN RA , if you play there, im sure you've run across offensive spirits spammers. These guys got major buffs, LOts of dmg with painful bond. and wanderlust+ dissonace can keep the best of casters down. shadowsongs blind is unremovable. and thus very useful in GvG. no need to keep the exdending War flashbotted.

also the spirits have a good bit of range. the diameter of the aggro circle just from experiance. and hours of useing offensive rit builds in RA.

weapon of quickening now has a use since it has a little better duration and it speeds up spirit cast time.very cool for helping with disruption. Besst of all the 100+ dps of spirits(double that with painful bond) ingnores armor, prot, and anythign else. From useing offensive spirits in RA/ seeing them used it seems they would be a very powerful area control weapon for a VoD team.

The main problem is that the only thing the ritulist does well right now is area control. Being subpar at everythign else. I know some of you die hard channelers will despute this, BUt Air spike Ele, Fire eles are better, (as they should be ) than channelig rits.

and i knwo for sure that, resto rits are not as good at protecting a gruop as a monk tehy can almost keep up with healing monks, but not quite.

the problem is that restoration and prot are seperated into 2 differant atributtes. and that the cool down on Union, shelter, displacement is still too far out of reach for them to be used without ritual lord.

Kais Unduli · Sep 29, 2006, 01:21 PM // 13:21

I've never had a problem keeping up with a healing monk in PvE as a restorationalist. Then again, I love playing a monk, so I guess I'm just used to it.

I plan on taking my ritualist as far as I can in Nightfall, and if that means playing restore the whole way through, then I won't mind. If I get to play Spirit Spam or Channeling somewhat, then great. If we can find some new spots to farm with Dahnel's awesome build, even better.

Robin_Anadri · Sep 29, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Every time a major build gets the nerfbat, the community is separated into two distinct groups: the whiney, unimaginitive sore losers, and the people capable of displaying some frickin' adaptability.

Think outside of the box, folks. Here's a simple example, one of many builds you can do with your rit and be a powerful contributer to the team:

Ritualist/any

Communing 12 + 1 + 3
Channelling 12 + 1
Restoration Magic (the rest)

Painful Bond
Pain
Bloodsong
Spirit Rift
Essence Strike
Soul Twisting {e}
Weapon of Warding / Sprit Light / Mend Body & Soul
Flesh of My Flesh / Res Sig

Use Soul Twisting on either spririt when your team moves to the next mob, then you can nearly instacast Bloodsong. Throw Pain then spam Painful Bond as often as it recharges. Spirit Rift on mobs, Essense Strike for extra damage and energy gain.

The DPS from this build is insane. So, quit whining, and adapt.

Frank Dudenstein · Sep 29, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Sorry guys, but the Ritlord build simply HAD to be nerfed. IT made GvG a major snoozefest ... you simply couldn't get kills against a competent team with a Ritlord backing them ... meaning a 30 minute endless fight at the flagstand until VoD. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... Nobody wanted to GvG with a Ritlord out there...

Now, I agree with one point ... they HAVE taken away the only reason you would ever have a Rit on a serious PvP team .... (outside of a special build specifically constructed for it).

It would still be nice if they buffed Restoration rits enough to be a viable alternatives to monks...

It would also be nice if the Channeling line were buffed enough to make them viable damage dealers ... of course we have been asking that of Eles for a year and a half now and it hasn't happened yet ... so I don't hold much hope for Rits...

lunksunkunk · Oct 02, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Look the other classes are great. But heres the concept that im thinking thru, Ritualist Manage Spirits Right? Thats their job. What do spirits do? Damage or protect. But now with the shot on Boon, Rit Lord, Shelter, and Recup, we have the ENTIRE protection line rendered useless. So isnt that like killing half of the Ritualist's Entire Profession skill Line? If thats the case, then why dont we take warriors and kill there whole entire tanking line, like stances, dolyak, watch yourself, shields, and etc. So that warriors now ONLY deal dmg, im pretty sure someone is gonna complain. So why cut Ritualists in half? Sure the spiritbomber and spammers now have more effective offensive spirits, so now we can make ANOTHER "cookie cutter" build for bombers then? cuz i've seen all the builds for spammers, and they ALL revolve around the same skills mostly. So if we dont want "cookie cutter" builds like the old Rit Lord. Then why are we encouraging cookie cutter builds with the spammers then? Dont tell me that its because cookie cutter builds are bad, cuz if thats the case, why dont we nerf the 55 "cookie cutter" build? im pretty sure LOTS of ppl will be pissed off. Just cuz someone doesnt like the PvP Rit lord, doesnt mean that the Whole entire PVE line should take the fall. I think this has got to change someway, im not asking for the old rit lord back, but something more innovative in which the restoration and protection side of the ritualist comes back into the equation for PVE and PVP play. I play CS, and CSS, and honestly this reminds of when ppl were complaining about the awp being scoped too fast and too powerful, then in 1.6 they put a stupid delay on it, well what do you kno? ppl started no-scoping, and then "that" became an issue, so what did they do in CSS they mid-ranged it, wihtout a huge delay but a gradual scope-in delay. So dont tell me that im a whiner and that i complained too much, cuz somehwere down the line SOMEONE JUST LIKE ME was complaining about how Ritualist were "too powerful." Theres 2 sides to every issue, i just chose to stand in the other side.